Part 4 (Conclusion) Of Interview With Elbegdorj Tsahkia
By Peter and Helen Evans (04/06/04)
Here in America, we often mouth the phrases that "freedom is not free" or "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance," yet most of those we talk to don't really believe that freedom can die, or is even at risk. We here in America, have been blessed with it for hundreds of years. We hope this interview will help readers to realize that freedom is an on-going, risky experiment and it takes time to master.
We're still working on ours. It took 100 years to free the slaves and we're constantly being asked to submit to UN regulations or leftist demands that would curtail our sovereignty. It's a never ending struggle, and it gets harder when even one generation doesn't hold the fort. Abraham Lincoln called it "the silent artillery of time." He knew that the wounded from the Civil War would remind the population what they were fighting for, but knew when the wounded grew old and died the new generation would tend to forget.
We've seen seeds of liberty and democracy planted in Mongolia and while the old Communists now hold the majority in the Parliament, they have had to change dramatically to adapt to the new, non-Soviet reality and to regain power. They are forcing themselves, however reluctantly, to continue the initial reforms, while still retaining the privileges of power. There is still a chance in this great world of ours that those seeds of liberty and democracy will grow. With a courageous man like Elbegdorj Tsahkia taking up the cause again, armed with greater maturity, his advanced education during his recent years in the United States, and his understanding that ideas are more powerful than bribes or handouts, we'd say that you'll see a different Mongolia in the coming years.
You can see for yourself where we are in our own experiment and we hope this first hand glimpse into the formation of a democracy in Mongolia will inspire you to cherish our great heritage of freedom and to honor those who risk everything to bring that freedom to others in the world. President Bush said it best... "Freedom is not America's gift to the world, but rather, God's gift to mankind."
EB: . . . For instance, the gap between rich and poor is widening.
Peter: That can happen for many reasons, but the two main reasons are that the rich are getting richer or, the poor are getting poorer. What is happening in Mongolia?
EB: The middle class is disappearing. I define the middle class as those who can sustain themselves without outside assistance, small businessmen, etc. Because of high taxes and corruption, these people are joining to the poor of society. It seems only those who have connections are succeeding. The poor are paying for the small percentage of those who are getting rich.
Peter: Does everyone vote?
EB: Just about everyone votes. But a new thing is happening where the young people are not voting. These young people are supporters of a free society, but they didn't come into the election. The old Communists in our county are surviving because of the over-50 crowd.
Helen: It seems to me, within the 20-30 year old age group is a somewhat natural urge to "make the world better," to bring about change. It seems to happen in every country. It also seems, as long as there is a platform, they will join it, if they can feel belonging. What can you do for the young people in Mongolia?
EB: We need to do something. We're missing that group in the process toward democracy.
Peter: What portion of the population is urban?
Eb: About 50%. We still have a nomadic or rural population.
Peter: And what is the median age of the population?
EB: It's younger.
Peter: Is it that they want so much freedom that they don't realize that a responsibility that comes with freedom is showing up and making an X on a ballot to vote?
EB: I think so. You see many of them have a very good life. Their parents work to support them while they study and, of course, go to clubs and dance.
Peter: That sounds like middle class to me.
EB: Our middle class is shrinking. We need to expand it.
Peter: It seems the middle class is the flywheel which gives the economy the momentum to thrive.
EB: When I go back, I will begin to talk to the middle class and ask them to become involved, if only in dialogues, to tell us what they feel about their lives now. In the past many people were very frustrated with us and didn't want to get involved in politics. It seems, if you are in power, you will be hated by the majority of the people.
We speak of individual responsibility and that is necessary, but first I think the government should be responsible to the people. That's the first and major item any nation needs for the population to thrive. When governments forget their responsibility to the people, to the constitution; then people tend to forget their own responsibility also. I cannot blame the ordinary people when the government doesn't show leadership.
You know politics is different than business. If you invest as a businessman in your firm you have to take responsibility, otherwise you lose your investment. With politics, however, losing the people's investment doesn't mean you've lost your job. I believe government has to be responsible to the people for their investment.
You say Mongolia is inspiring, to watch its growth of freedom and democracy. I believe that, and I say to my countrymen that we must pay attention to the health of our freedom and our democracy. Otherwise we won't be inspiring. For now we are eating the meal provided by the first Democratic Union, but that is finished, and we have to sustain ourselves and sustain our economy. You cannot ask everyday for more loans and commitments from other countries. Now is the time to pay attention to our own internal issues and our own growth.
Peter: To whom will you say that? To the Communists who are in power?
EB: It's a kind of general message to everyone.
Peter: That may play well in America, but what will they think of it in Mongolia? That's hard to say to people who will elect you. In other words, you're saying, "vote for me and you're going to have to work harder, pay attention, make sacrifices." The other guy is saying, "vote for me and I'll give you a school and a hospital, bread and so forth."
(note to readers; you should have heard EB laughing at this point!!)
EB: Many will not like my message in Mongolia. Well, in 2004 we will have the Parliamentary elections and, in 2005, we will have the Presidential election. However, even though the President is elected by the people, he's more a symbol. The Prime Minister is the real power and Chief Executive.
Peter: Is it similar to France?
EB: Yes. We had nationwide elections 7 or 8 times. Some people voted 4 or 5 times for those who promised them the world; even free bus passes. They even distributed goods in some districts before the elections; sometimes only flour, or maybe even a car if someone asked for it. So they got those votes. But finally they're beginning to realize that they can eat that flour for only one month, eat that bread for only one day. Then they'll have to wait till the next election for the next hand-out. So I will ask them to be pragmatic and realistic.
Helen: Do you think more investment, which will show people succeeding, will inspire others to try to succeed also?
EB: Yes.
Helen: I remember when you spoke at the Heritage Foundation about "planting seeds." You said, sometimes it doesn't grow as fast as you'd like. That made me think of King Arthur. Before his major battle he told a young page to go forth and spread the word of the round table. Even if he didn't personally succeed, the idea was important enough to carry on. Not in his lifetime, but it was an idea strong enough to grow eventually and the young page was the messenger; the seed bearer. We certainly hope you'll be nurturing that seed you planted as a courageous youth only 10 years ago.
EB: I don't know about that. You see the transition brought lots of suffering for my people. I and my friends feel very responsible for that. I think that's the difference between the Democrats and the Communists in Mongolia. The Communists don't have the responsibility for democracy. They blamed the suffering on us, not on the growth of democracy. For instance, we allowed free newspapers for the first time in 75 years. Now those same newspapers are writing articles against us; but we gave them the freedom to do so. So we brought the freedom and also accepted the responsibility for the transition, but the Communists are reaping the benefits of our change.
Also, we privatized many companies. But we, who fought in the streets, didn't have the money to buy into the new, private companies. Only the Communists, who had run them before, had such capital and they are now again in charge of the company, yet it is a privately-owned company. They bought almost everything. They knew that in a few weeks the company would be privatized and they talked to their other friends who had been in power and were able to buy and now own what they had been general manager of before. The Communists are now the biggest capitalists in Mongolia!
Peter: Did they really change their minds? For instance, you grew up as a Communist, but changed your mind. But that change came from within, not from changing situations without. So it seems the people who were in power before are still in power because they shifted with the changes. For example, as you said, someone may say this is a state company today and I'm running it, but it's going to be private tomorrow and I'll own it. So do we just have to wait for those people to die? It doesn't seem they will suddenly become Democrats, they've only changed the method of how they do business. As you said, during that convention it seemed you had to make your move for dramatic change and nothing will be the same. The country changed around them but it seems strange that they would have changed so fast.
EB: Communists reach people by their things, their money, their companies, their jobs. I reach people with ideas. I think people will listen to me. During my time in the United States I studied at Harvard, I made some good connections and I recharged my batteries. I will go back and establish some type of think tank and hope people will invest in my ideas. I will be transparent and responsible and set a good example.
Peter: Thank you for your time and our best wishes go with you.
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